eli5: Why aren’t bamboo products like Toilet Paper/Paper towels considerably cheaper than their tree counterparts?
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You’ve already gotten correct answers down here… but also, why would they make it cheaper if they can price it the same (or more, I’d bet bamboo TP and paper towels are MORE, aren’t they?) and it’ll get bought anyway?
Capitalism isn’t in anyway about fairness, it’s about sponging as much money out of people as possible by any means necessary.
A LOT of consumer goods, and this will be especially true for something like toilet paper, have material costs that are a tiny fraction of the retail price of the good.
Understand first that the price of something may be constrained by its cost to produce, but rarely has any relationship to it. A product that costs $1 to make and deliver to the consumer may have a price of $100 if consumers value it at $100. This is how market pricing works.
My guess for toilet paper is that no more than 10% of the price of toilet paper reflects the material cost. Further, the packaging of the toilet paper probably costs as much as the toilet paper itself. The shipping of it is also pretty high – it’s light but bulky. A semi of toilet paper isn’t worth much money, so the cost of that shipping is distributed over a relatively small number of units. You have high retail costs because it takes up a lot of shelf space. You have advertising costs in there as well. Gotta pay for that NASCAR sponsorship.
So if you cut your material costs by 50%, you’re probably cutting maybe 5% of the retail price. That’s generally not even enough to bother discounting a product because it’s not enough to get consumers to switch. Not many people are choosing the $0.94 can of beans over the $0.99 one based on price.
A LOT of consumer goods, and this will be especially true for something like toilet paper, have material costs that are a tiny fraction of the retail price of the good.
Understand first that the price of something may be constrained by its cost to produce, but rarely has any relationship to it. A product that costs $1 to make and deliver to the consumer may have a price of $100 if consumers value it at $100. This is how market pricing works.
My guess for toilet paper is that no more than 10% of the price of toilet paper reflects the material cost. Further, the packaging of the toilet paper probably costs as much as the toilet paper itself. The shipping of it is also pretty high – it’s light but bulky. A semi of toilet paper isn’t worth much money, so the cost of that shipping is distributed over a relatively small number of units. You have high retail costs because it takes up a lot of shelf space. You have advertising costs in there as well. Gotta pay for that NASCAR sponsorship.
So if you cut your material costs by 50%, you’re probably cutting maybe 5% of the retail price. That’s generally not even enough to bother discounting a product because it’s not enough to get consumers to switch. Not many people are choosing the $0.94 can of beans over the $0.99 one based on price.
A LOT of consumer goods, and this will be especially true for something like toilet paper, have material costs that are a tiny fraction of the retail price of the good.
Understand first that the price of something may be constrained by its cost to produce, but rarely has any relationship to it. A product that costs $1 to make and deliver to the consumer may have a price of $100 if consumers value it at $100. This is how market pricing works.
My guess for toilet paper is that no more than 10% of the price of toilet paper reflects the material cost. Further, the packaging of the toilet paper probably costs as much as the toilet paper itself. The shipping of it is also pretty high – it’s light but bulky. A semi of toilet paper isn’t worth much money, so the cost of that shipping is distributed over a relatively small number of units. You have high retail costs because it takes up a lot of shelf space. You have advertising costs in there as well. Gotta pay for that NASCAR sponsorship.
So if you cut your material costs by 50%, you’re probably cutting maybe 5% of the retail price. That’s generally not even enough to bother discounting a product because it’s not enough to get consumers to switch. Not many people are choosing the $0.94 can of beans over the $0.99 one based on price.
Plenty of answers and I usually just read but this time I thought I’d chime in. I’ve been working with bamboo on the forestry side for +8y now. Main reason is there are no commercial plantations of bamboo large enough for a project like that, there have been many tests done by the largest paper companies having great results with the fiber but first you’d have to plant enough individuals to support that operation and then adapt your machinery to process this kind of fiber.
Bamboo is more suited for cardboard since it has long fiber vs short which are mainly used in paper.
Plenty of answers and I usually just read but this time I thought I’d chime in. I’ve been working with bamboo on the forestry side for +8y now. Main reason is there are no commercial plantations of bamboo large enough for a project like that, there have been many tests done by the largest paper companies having great results with the fiber but first you’d have to plant enough individuals to support that operation and then adapt your machinery to process this kind of fiber.
Bamboo is more suited for cardboard since it has long fiber vs short which are mainly used in paper.
Plenty of answers and I usually just read but this time I thought I’d chime in. I’ve been working with bamboo on the forestry side for +8y now. Main reason is there are no commercial plantations of bamboo large enough for a project like that, there have been many tests done by the largest paper companies having great results with the fiber but first you’d have to plant enough individuals to support that operation and then adapt your machinery to process this kind of fiber.
Bamboo is more suited for cardboard since it has long fiber vs short which are mainly used in paper.
Bamboo and wood fibers are very different. Even within wood there are different species of trees used for different purposes for toilet paper and paper towels depending on what you want. The premium products will use a mixture of wood fibers to get their desired product. Additionally, paper machines can only accept a certain range of fiber properties before it causes problems. Given that, you can’t just say I want to replace all wood fibers with bamboo.
Even then bamboo is processed differently than wood. It’s more expensive to get the right amount of fibers and the right fiber lengths than doing so with wood, which is a much more mature technology. Making bamboo more expensive. As far as I’ve seen in 20+ years of product development is that the number of people wiling to pay more for a more “sustainable” product is very small.
I put sustainable in quotes because most toilet paper and towel companies already have several sustainable initiatives for their products. Between responsibly sourced virgin fiber and including recycled, which can only be done to an extent without compromising the product to a point people don’t want to pay, other fibers have been/are being investigated as alternatives. If a cost effective alternatives were available where they’d be able to sell it they would. Not out of the goodness of their heart but because people want it, but at a price comparable to what they’re paying now.
Additionally, many companies will use language describing their product in a way that makes it look more sustainable than it is. As an example a lot of products that say they use bamboo are actually rayon made from bamboo. Rayon’s not terrible in its own right but it’s a far cry from a fiber directly from the plant. Many companies don’t know the difference because they’re not making it. They’re buying it from others that are not 100% honest.
Alternative fibers are being looked at all the time. Whether it’s trying to satisfy a customer need or to reduce cost, ideally both, they are being looked at. Fiber cost is a large portion of the cost of your toilet paper and paper towels. If it was cheaper and didn’t turn people off to the product they would be used. Not because paper companies are benevolent, that’s silly. It’s because it’s good for their business because you’re demanding it.
Bamboo and wood fibers are very different. Even within wood there are different species of trees used for different purposes for toilet paper and paper towels depending on what you want. The premium products will use a mixture of wood fibers to get their desired product. Additionally, paper machines can only accept a certain range of fiber properties before it causes problems. Given that, you can’t just say I want to replace all wood fibers with bamboo.
Even then bamboo is processed differently than wood. It’s more expensive to get the right amount of fibers and the right fiber lengths than doing so with wood, which is a much more mature technology. Making bamboo more expensive. As far as I’ve seen in 20+ years of product development is that the number of people wiling to pay more for a more “sustainable” product is very small.
I put sustainable in quotes because most toilet paper and towel companies already have several sustainable initiatives for their products. Between responsibly sourced virgin fiber and including recycled, which can only be done to an extent without compromising the product to a point people don’t want to pay, other fibers have been/are being investigated as alternatives. If a cost effective alternatives were available where they’d be able to sell it they would. Not out of the goodness of their heart but because people want it, but at a price comparable to what they’re paying now.
Additionally, many companies will use language describing their product in a way that makes it look more sustainable than it is. As an example a lot of products that say they use bamboo are actually rayon made from bamboo. Rayon’s not terrible in its own right but it’s a far cry from a fiber directly from the plant. Many companies don’t know the difference because they’re not making it. They’re buying it from others that are not 100% honest.
Alternative fibers are being looked at all the time. Whether it’s trying to satisfy a customer need or to reduce cost, ideally both, they are being looked at. Fiber cost is a large portion of the cost of your toilet paper and paper towels. If it was cheaper and didn’t turn people off to the product they would be used. Not because paper companies are benevolent, that’s silly. It’s because it’s good for their business because you’re demanding it.
Bamboo and wood fibers are very different. Even within wood there are different species of trees used for different purposes for toilet paper and paper towels depending on what you want. The premium products will use a mixture of wood fibers to get their desired product. Additionally, paper machines can only accept a certain range of fiber properties before it causes problems. Given that, you can’t just say I want to replace all wood fibers with bamboo.
Even then bamboo is processed differently than wood. It’s more expensive to get the right amount of fibers and the right fiber lengths than doing so with wood, which is a much more mature technology. Making bamboo more expensive. As far as I’ve seen in 20+ years of product development is that the number of people wiling to pay more for a more “sustainable” product is very small.
I put sustainable in quotes because most toilet paper and towel companies already have several sustainable initiatives for their products. Between responsibly sourced virgin fiber and including recycled, which can only be done to an extent without compromising the product to a point people don’t want to pay, other fibers have been/are being investigated as alternatives. If a cost effective alternatives were available where they’d be able to sell it they would. Not out of the goodness of their heart but because people want it, but at a price comparable to what they’re paying now.
Additionally, many companies will use language describing their product in a way that makes it look more sustainable than it is. As an example a lot of products that say they use bamboo are actually rayon made from bamboo. Rayon’s not terrible in its own right but it’s a far cry from a fiber directly from the plant. Many companies don’t know the difference because they’re not making it. They’re buying it from others that are not 100% honest.
Alternative fibers are being looked at all the time. Whether it’s trying to satisfy a customer need or to reduce cost, ideally both, they are being looked at. Fiber cost is a large portion of the cost of your toilet paper and paper towels. If it was cheaper and didn’t turn people off to the product they would be used. Not because paper companies are benevolent, that’s silly. It’s because it’s good for their business because you’re demanding it.
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