Im not from Europe. Can someone explain what are the Balkans exactly and why there’s “beef” between them?
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the balkans are the area of europe that basically sits east of Italy. places like Slovenia, Hungary, etc all the way south to greece. Historicaly, the area was controlled by the Austrian and Ottoman empires, with the two fighting and regions changing hands on and off for centuries.
ok, the VERT short version of the beef is that theirs a multitude of different cultural/ethnic groups all living in the area, and everyone is *heavily* intermingled with each other. As the empires that used to control the area declined in the 19th century, various ethnic groups spilt off and formed nation-states that tended to be dominated by one ethnic group or another, and borders were worked out that either conformed to old administrative regions or were forged by war.
HOWEVER, their were and still is significant intermingling of ethnic groups across these new national borders, and people generally* want to be in “their” ethnic groups nation, and want thier home area to be in that nation.
Its not a case of “all the blues on the west of the border, all the reds on the east”, but a spectrum running form “mostly blue” to “mostly red”. the tension comes form where you draw the line in that mix of purples in the middle and say “this is the end of red, everything beyond this is blue”. You might say “blue starts here”, but i think it that includes lots of what i think is still red, and blue starts over *there*. Theirs other issues layering on top of this, including pre-national historical and religious grievances (the whole area is the border between the Christian and Muslim regions, and whichever side was in power this century tended to treat the other faith poorly), but its basically boils down to the lines on the map not matching with what people think they “should” be.
*obviously, not everyone in every ethnic group wants to unify under “thier” ethnic state, their are dissenters who are happy with the current borders, people are never totally unanimous on *anything*.
the balkans are the area of europe that basically sits east of Italy. places like Slovenia, Hungary, etc all the way south to greece. Historicaly, the area was controlled by the Austrian and Ottoman empires, with the two fighting and regions changing hands on and off for centuries.
ok, the VERT short version of the beef is that theirs a multitude of different cultural/ethnic groups all living in the area, and everyone is *heavily* intermingled with each other. As the empires that used to control the area declined in the 19th century, various ethnic groups spilt off and formed nation-states that tended to be dominated by one ethnic group or another, and borders were worked out that either conformed to old administrative regions or were forged by war.
HOWEVER, their were and still is significant intermingling of ethnic groups across these new national borders, and people generally* want to be in “their” ethnic groups nation, and want thier home area to be in that nation.
Its not a case of “all the blues on the west of the border, all the reds on the east”, but a spectrum running form “mostly blue” to “mostly red”. the tension comes form where you draw the line in that mix of purples in the middle and say “this is the end of red, everything beyond this is blue”. You might say “blue starts here”, but i think it that includes lots of what i think is still red, and blue starts over *there*. Theirs other issues layering on top of this, including pre-national historical and religious grievances (the whole area is the border between the Christian and Muslim regions, and whichever side was in power this century tended to treat the other faith poorly), but its basically boils down to the lines on the map not matching with what people think they “should” be.
*obviously, not everyone in every ethnic group wants to unify under “thier” ethnic state, their are dissenters who are happy with the current borders, people are never totally unanimous on *anything*.
There have been great answers provided already, but I haven’t seen the most important thing mentioned as of yet.
Everyone in the Balkans hate each other and Serbia.
Just keep that in mind and enjoy the Balkan beef
There have been great answers provided already, but I haven’t seen the most important thing mentioned as of yet.
Everyone in the Balkans hate each other and Serbia.
Just keep that in mind and enjoy the Balkan beef
To some extent it’s likely related to geography and mountains affecting cultural interaction
Rugged mountain valleys often lead to isolated cultural pockets that become engulfed by other cultures
There are lots of examples from around the world where there are cultural disuptes in diverse mountainous areas, often related to enclaves/exclaves and isolated cultural pockets
Examples such as the Basque region, the Nagorno-Karabakh problems in Armenia/Azerbaijan, even the Appalachians in the US, Georgia and Russia, Afghanistan, Celtic peoples in Scotland way back in the day, etc.
Rugged mountains have a way of isolating cultural groups and allowing disparate cultures to form on either side of the mountains at close proximity and then when this combines with modern industry and politics it often gets out of hand.
The mountains block cultural interactions between cultures that may technically live only a short distance away, so it sometimes leads to more diversity than in a flatter area where everyone can interact more easily. And cultures can become isolated inside a single mountain valley surrounded by another group outside the valley.
You also see a less confrontational version of it in the US and Canada where the west coast developed a different culture than the interior separated by mountains and everyone is always arguing. I think west and east Oregon is a stark example. Or the central valley in cali, or the lower mainland in BC.
No this isn’t a rule and yes there are more exceptions than examples, but it’s hard to say this never happens. I never said this was the dominant factor before someone jumps down my throat, obviously this doesn’t explain everything
Why is there beef? OK, so we need to talk about ancient history….
In all seriousness, the average citizen does not care. My homeland of Macedonia is said to be on thin ice when it comes to racial relations with Albanians, yet I’ve only ever seen kindness at best, and indifference at worst when the two groups collide.
The real issues are the more radical groups of people and politicians, but most of the country is fine.
I’ve talked to a serbo-Kosovar once who told me how well both sides interact on a daily basis, it’s not like an active war zone out there.
Is there still active violence and extremist people and world views? Sadly yes. But the most angry of those bunch are the type who typically have never even interacted with those that they hate. That’s because it’s easy to fear and hate the unknown, but hard to hate once you share some rakija with each other.
That’s not to say the usual political nonsense doesn’t occur. But honestly, I don’t think it’s any worse than the political nonsense of the west. The Beef present there is just a different flavor of the beef present everywhere.
To some extent it’s likely related to geography and mountains affecting cultural interaction
Rugged mountain valleys often lead to isolated cultural pockets that become engulfed by other cultures
There are lots of examples from around the world where there are cultural disuptes in diverse mountainous areas, often related to enclaves/exclaves and isolated cultural pockets
Examples such as the Basque region, the Nagorno-Karabakh problems in Armenia/Azerbaijan, even the Appalachians in the US, Georgia and Russia, Afghanistan, Celtic peoples in Scotland way back in the day, etc.
Rugged mountains have a way of isolating cultural groups and allowing disparate cultures to form on either side of the mountains at close proximity and then when this combines with modern industry and politics it often gets out of hand.
The mountains block cultural interactions between cultures that may technically live only a short distance away, so it sometimes leads to more diversity than in a flatter area where everyone can interact more easily. And cultures can become isolated inside a single mountain valley surrounded by another group outside the valley.
You also see a less confrontational version of it in the US and Canada where the west coast developed a different culture than the interior separated by mountains and everyone is always arguing. I think west and east Oregon is a stark example. Or the central valley in cali, or the lower mainland in BC.
No this isn’t a rule and yes there are more exceptions than examples, but it’s hard to say this never happens. I never said this was the dominant factor before someone jumps down my throat, obviously this doesn’t explain everything
Why is there beef? OK, so we need to talk about ancient history….
In all seriousness, the average citizen does not care. My homeland of Macedonia is said to be on thin ice when it comes to racial relations with Albanians, yet I’ve only ever seen kindness at best, and indifference at worst when the two groups collide.
The real issues are the more radical groups of people and politicians, but most of the country is fine.
I’ve talked to a serbo-Kosovar once who told me how well both sides interact on a daily basis, it’s not like an active war zone out there.
Is there still active violence and extremist people and world views? Sadly yes. But the most angry of those bunch are the type who typically have never even interacted with those that they hate. That’s because it’s easy to fear and hate the unknown, but hard to hate once you share some rakija with each other.
That’s not to say the usual political nonsense doesn’t occur. But honestly, I don’t think it’s any worse than the political nonsense of the west. The Beef present there is just a different flavor of the beef present everywhere.
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