Honestly, I’ve seen a few different definitions for it, from an argument that’s just meant to br antagonistic, another is that it’s one where the one making seeks to win no matter what, another is where the person making it knows it’s wrong but makes it anyway.
Can anyone nail down what arguing in bad faith actually is for me? If so, that’d be great.
In: 647
I think the correct meaning has been mentioned a few different times, but I thought I might try to reiterate or simplify.
Someone is arguing in bad faith when they are willing to result to basically any tactic aside from outright lying to make their argument appear favorable or correct.
This can include:
The misrepresentation, omission, or misconstruing of fact.
*”Five people on that flight were wearing masks and they still got sick”, knowing full well an additional 15 who were not wearing masks also got sick.*
An attack of character that is completely unrelated to the argument.
“*What does this guy know about medicine, his favorite show is Scrubs!*”
Knowingly citing an unreliable, invalid, or biased source
*”Well, Alex Jones said.. “*
Or basically anything that is *deliberately* misleading in the interest of “proof”.
I think the correct meaning has been mentioned a few different times, but I thought I might try to reiterate or simplify.
Someone is arguing in bad faith when they are willing to result to basically any tactic aside from outright lying to make their argument appear favorable or correct.
This can include:
The misrepresentation, omission, or misconstruing of fact.
*”Five people on that flight were wearing masks and they still got sick”, knowing full well an additional 15 who were not wearing masks also got sick.*
An attack of character that is completely unrelated to the argument.
“*What does this guy know about medicine, his favorite show is Scrubs!*”
Knowingly citing an unreliable, invalid, or biased source
*”Well, Alex Jones said.. “*
Or basically anything that is *deliberately* misleading in the interest of “proof”.
A bad faith argument is when you make a statement or argue in favor of something that you already know to be false, incorrect or morally wrong in hopes to deceive someone else.
An example would be Putin telling his people that Ukraine is a Nazi state and started a war with Russia. HE knows that is complete BS, but if enough people believe and support him then it doesn’t matter how much of a lie it is.
A bad faith argument is when you make a statement or argue in favor of something that you already know to be false, incorrect or morally wrong in hopes to deceive someone else.
An example would be Putin telling his people that Ukraine is a Nazi state and started a war with Russia. HE knows that is complete BS, but if enough people believe and support him then it doesn’t matter how much of a lie it is.
A bad faith argument is when you make a statement or argue in favor of something that you already know to be false, incorrect or morally wrong in hopes to deceive someone else.
An example would be Putin telling his people that Ukraine is a Nazi state and started a war with Russia. HE knows that is complete BS, but if enough people believe and support him then it doesn’t matter how much of a lie it is.
You and I are having a debate. Your position is that gummy bears are better than worms. My position is gummy worms are better than bears.
I come to the debate stage willing to defend my position but also with the understanding that if you make compelling enough argument, that I am willing to change my mind.
You come to the debate willing to defend your position but also with the understanding that if I make a compelling enough argument that you are willing to change your mind.
We have faith in each other that we are there to make and listen to rational arguments about the debate subject.
Either one of us can break that faith by removing one, our willingness to change our minds, or two, by presenting arguments that are intended to deceive, rather than rationally convince someone.
For example, you show and take the stage to talk about how ice cream is healthy and fail to make an argument about hunny bears or worms, you have broken faith.
You and I are having a debate. Your position is that gummy bears are better than worms. My position is gummy worms are better than bears.
I come to the debate stage willing to defend my position but also with the understanding that if you make compelling enough argument, that I am willing to change my mind.
You come to the debate willing to defend your position but also with the understanding that if I make a compelling enough argument that you are willing to change your mind.
We have faith in each other that we are there to make and listen to rational arguments about the debate subject.
Either one of us can break that faith by removing one, our willingness to change our minds, or two, by presenting arguments that are intended to deceive, rather than rationally convince someone.
For example, you show and take the stage to talk about how ice cream is healthy and fail to make an argument about hunny bears or worms, you have broken faith.
You and I are having a debate. Your position is that gummy bears are better than worms. My position is gummy worms are better than bears.
I come to the debate stage willing to defend my position but also with the understanding that if you make compelling enough argument, that I am willing to change my mind.
You come to the debate willing to defend your position but also with the understanding that if I make a compelling enough argument that you are willing to change your mind.
We have faith in each other that we are there to make and listen to rational arguments about the debate subject.
Either one of us can break that faith by removing one, our willingness to change our minds, or two, by presenting arguments that are intended to deceive, rather than rationally convince someone.
For example, you show and take the stage to talk about how ice cream is healthy and fail to make an argument about hunny bears or worms, you have broken faith.
It comes down to the purpose of argument
An argument should have the ultimate goal of benefiting all parties involved. You want everyone to make the right choice. There shouldn’t be a winner or loser. You’re trying to make sure everyone is right.
You state the facts, you work out the logic, and at worst, both sides come out knowing a little bit more about the situation than they did before.
Arguing from bad faith is when you’re arguing for a more malicious reason. You don’t care about being right or wrong; You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing, or arguing expressly to annoy, or straight up hurt someone.
There’s a difference between “I think you’re wrong, but let’s talk about it and find out”, and yammering at someone for 25 minutes because you’re fed up with them. That difference is faith.
You gotta have faith that the person you’re talking to wants to do the right thing, just the same as you do. If you don’t, then you’re not in a position to argue.
A bad faith argument tends to argue the opponent’s *position* rather than how they *arrive* at that position.
If Person 1 says that “we believe A because of X,Y,Z”, to counter argue in good faith you must show why X, Y, and Z are wrong.
If instead you ignore X, Y, and Z because “Person 1 in fact doesn’t believe in A at all”, you are arguing in bad faith.
When it comes down to it, a good faith argument assumes that the person making the original claim believes what they are saying.
Original claim: “The earth is flat and here’s the science to prove it!”
Bad faith argument: “Flat earthers are trolls who are only looking to piss people off at we need not listen to them.”
Good faith argument: “The earth is round and here’s why flat earth science is garbage.”
The thing is, the bad faith argument in this case isn’t necessarily wrong and it’s not a bad idea to ignore flat earthers. But a good faith argument can seldom be used as a weapon to silence the truth in the way bad faith ones can. Bad faith arguments can be wielded by the powerful against the weak or unpopular, regardless of the truth. And a better world is one that seeks the truth over moral necessity.
Latest Answers