I understand why casinos kick out card counters, the casino wants to make money and card counting is “cheating”. But if you are able to do it all in your head, is that not the same as being really good at poker? Knowing whats left in the deck and estimating your opponents cards based of that info and by reading your opponent. How do you prove counting vs skill? Is it just a way for casinos to weed out people who would take a lot of money?
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Another thing to consider that I didn’t see in the top 10 comments is, even under perfect conditions (playing with 1 or 2 decks, 6 players at the table, and you’re flawless at card counting), that still only moves your win rate from about 49.5% to 50.5%.
To add to the other excellent answers, I would add:
Poker is normally played against other players, the casino doesn’t win – they only take a percentage of the pot (‘rake’). Basically, casinos don’t care if you count cards in poker as they don’t win or lose from it.
From what I understand when I was trying to learn to count cards in blackjack, casinos don’t kick people out for card counting. They kick people out for using a device to help them card count. Doing something in your head is just what people already do whether they’re good or bad at it. Plus counting cards only works with specific conditions. Like the more decks they use the better since they usually don’t shuffle until they’re near the end, but counting cards really isn’t possible with 1 or 2 decks due to the lack of time the counting of cards would actually benefit you.
The reason casinos even use multiple decks is so they have to shuffle less and get in more games, but for high stakes games or tournaments then they’ll just use one deck where counting cards won’t work.
The people that the movie “21” is based off of and have a course on how to do it with stories that seem to go against your assumption.
This is nearly a myth. Casinos almost never kick out card counters. Casinos will, on rare occasion, remove someone who they think is not a good customer – which includes *some* card counters.
Most people who try to do card counting will never make money with it, and will just boost the casino’s profits. Making money with card counting is wildly over-glamorized in popular media; it is not sitting down with $100 and walking away with $1000 after an hour. In order to make money at all, you have to pay close attention to the whole game and play in a very unusual way. You need to bring in a large bankroll to be able to weather the ups and downs, because you’re still gambling, you just have a tiny advantage. You need to not drink anything or get distracted by the casino’s plentiful distractions, or you’ll lose focus. And there’s a bunch of techniques the house can easily apply to cut off your advantage, ranging from increased decks (which reduce the edge) to continuous shuffling (which just makes card counting pointless).
Further, even if you pull it off and make a few hundred or thousand dollars on the blackjack table, you need to have the discipline to then leave the casino with that – and never get drawn into the other games that will just drain your money again.
So a lot of people think they can do card counting, and try to do it casually, and end up playing more & losing more money than they would otherwise. Overall, the concept of card counting is actually beneficial to casinos. I would not be surprised if some of them actively push the “we kick out card counters” concept in order to increase the feeling of “thrill” that people get from “getting away with it” – drawing more people to try it out and lose more money.
I count cards playing blackjack, started playing at 18 at native american casinos. I so far have a positive record, mainly because I try and find 3 deck shoes, with nobody on them, or if I’m the last person before the dealer.
I gamble very rarely, when I do I take in my same 60 dollars that I started with back at age 18 and gamble for a couple hours and usually walk out with around 120, I have never once been asked to leave a casino and I even split 5’s right in front of the pit boss, because I knew it was mostly number cards in the deck.
Counting cards only gives you knowledge of probabilities. If a lot of face cards have fallen, odds are if you hit a number card will come out, this makes it safer to hit on 13 or 14. Its still very easy to lose money counting cards.
Counting cards is illegal if someone else does it for you though.
My friend openly counts cards and nobody has ever said a word to him. Counting cards only gives you a slight advantage, but it’s a lot of work. You can’t even really make much money at it because of table maximum bets.
Sure, if you find a super high limits table and are doing too good, they might kick you out. But even more likely is they will get you a room and a drink.
TLDR: For the average person, there is nothing wrong with trying to count cards.
Example: Card counters literally know what cards are left in the deck.
Example: “Good” card players have an idea of the odds.
Example: Really “Good” card players know how to work the table while playing poker and other games of chance+skill by constantly talking. AKA, lying well.
This discussion misses the most important part of counting cards that Casinos recognize. Changing bet size.
When counting cards and odds begin to swing in your favor you begin to bet much larger — naturally. You also make your bets as small as possible when odds favor the house.
This is the dead giveaway that you’re counting and taking full advantage of it.
If you counted cards and never varied your bet size you wouldn’t make any money because you’re not taking advantage of your advantage.
I think you’re making an assumption about what casino’s are allowed and not allowed to do. A casino can ban you for just being really good.
The last time i played Black Jack at a casino (not vegas, much smaller), the used 6 decks and would usually shuffle after around the fourth deck. This mitigates one’s ability to effectively count cards pretty significantly.
Just my 2c
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