I keep hearing about people in jail for 3+ years awaiting trial. If they’re ‘innocent until proven guilty’ I dont understand why they are confined. I thought there was a right to a speedy trial also or is that not really the case?
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Because it’s a unjust system that favors the rich. A truly just system will put you in house arrest instead of simply confining and imprisoning you for something that can’t be proven yet. If you’re truly innocent you wouldn’t be in jail would you?
You have the right to a fair and speedy trial. You have a right to have a legal representation present. You have the right to remain silent. At any point, for any reason, you may waive any number of them.
You may waive the right to have a speedy trial to allow your defense team more time to prepare, or any other number of reason. As for why the courts feel the need to hold people, for nonviolent crimes who aren’t flight risks, is not entirely obvious to me aside from the opportunity to get money from bail.
The short answer, which I haven’t seen anyone else give you yet, is that the Supreme Court has said that for the purpose of bail you are not “presumed innocent.” That way bail (if any) can be set in a way that reasonably protects the community and ensures that the defendant will show up for trial.
Think about it this way: if a man is accused of beating up his wife, and he gets arrested and goes to jail, do we want him “presumed innocent” for the purpose of setting bail? Or do we want a substantial bail, in order to protect the victim?
So we don’t “presume innocent” when it comes to bail.
Lots of people have offered reasons why bail is what it is, much of it cynical and anecdotal. (1) As a general rule, don’t buy what John Oliver is selling without going to other sources, and (2) delays of 3+ years are pretty rare (though I suppose with COVID shutting down courtrooms for so long, there have been some long delays).
Because “bail”
Now you get arrested and you’re either poor already or maybe lose your job because you’re in jail…. how do you or your family afford bail?
So in jail you stay.
That’s why bail reform is such a big deal.
Here in Denmark it comes down to keeping the criminal away from the streets during the investigation and case processing.
It’s meant to be a lot safer for the involved people and also keep the criminal from interfering with the investigation.
Also our justice system and courts are very busy, which is why it takes longer.
Ultimately it’s a dangerous cocktail due to the prisons being full, which means the prisons normal divided sections (gang vs gang) cant be held and is a potential risky situation.
You have a right to a speedy trial, but there are exceptions to this.
If defense counsel requests continuances, the time between those court appearance may not count.
The prosecution can also request extensions and they may be granted if they are deemed reasonable.
Here let me explain (Actual prosecutor) there are 2 major points to consider
1) Pretrial confinement as a concept; and
2)The difference in the ‘two sides’
1) Normally you aren’t supposed to be held pretrial (for more than a day or 2 from your arrest) so the prosecution has to argue why you should. IE ‘a danger to the community’, ‘disobeys court orders’ or ‘is a flight risk’. Pretty self explanatory here. A first offense that isn’t really ‘a big deal’ usually justifies instant release on PR (Personal recognizance) pretty much the judge saying: “Hey be cool and I’ll let you out” usually with some pretty standard conditions like checking in to probation (could be as simple as a phone call a month to show you are ‘still being cool’). This really is the easier side to address. Some nations almost have a complete ban on pretrial confinement unless you clearly give the court a reason to hold you.
2) The two sides. The minute I sign the criminal complaint in most instances my side has done all of the work we need to win at trial. Sure maybe we find something out later and have to change some charges. Maybe we have to interview a witness because the police report is vague/generally I want to know more about what that guy who ran into the road pointing and screaming ‘he is over that way’ saw but at the time he was in a complete panic so the police really couldn’t interview him beyond getting contact information. Now I’m not going to drive down to some random dodgy street to try and figure out which house he lives in. My investigator does that for me. Essentially my personal police officer. He tends to fit in with the community more and know more of the ‘street smarts’ than me.
If the police make an arrest and I decide we aren’t charging it. We don’t, you get out of jail as soon as I tell them to let you out. This can be done because it isn’t serious enough and “I will get to it when I have time” it may be because we need to do more investigating. Until the statute of limitations runs out I am free to pick anytime to bring the complaint
**I always get to make the first move.** This is really the takeaway here. The defense always reacts to the criminal complaint, they never get to ‘take the initiative’ (the sole exception is if you are held without being charged and that is a huge civil rights violation but that is an entirely different discussion) Right then. The first action the defense does is ask for me to play my hand ‘face up’ they get the police reports, whatever interviews my investigator does (If I am present fine, he takes notes. I will never speak to a witness alone because that is super not ok and likely amounts to prosecutorial misconduct if I am gathering any information beyond ‘hey can you confirm that this number is right in the police report?’)
Right now you are in jail and your attorney’s work starts. He has options, does he spend time asking for release or is it futile? He will speak to you and decide if you want to give him time to negotiate a plea with us and have time to do his own investigation. Keep in mind I have to turn over what I have including things that help you but the police aren’t obligated to try to aid your defense so often times the only thing the defense has on day 1 to ‘help them’ is the defendant’s own version of the events (prosecution plays face up defense does not). Or you can assert your right to a speedy trial which essentially means **I want to go right now** and everything changes. Time limits become incredibly short. You have the absolute right to do this and within 45 days the trial will be starting. But again, the prosecution is likely done/nearly done before the complaint is filed your side is just starting. Want to assert your right to a speedy trial for a DUI? Same time limit as a murder.
So let’s move on. Let’s say the prosecution accuses you of murder (and before you think I can just point a finger and boom in jail, I would immediately be sanctioned if I started filing complaints wildly. Like there is a difference between the police were wrong and I decided today ‘OP is going to jail’). Realistically you will get a cash bail that is either stupidly expensive so no bail bondsman will ‘front you’ or bail may not even be on the table. From here, your attorney may have literally thousands of pages handed to them (rare but it does happen) and they have to read it all to even get ‘caught up’ to really know what I’m holding in my hand.
You aren’t the only client your attorney has. This cannot be understated. It isn’t as if he can sit down Thursday afternoon and spend 8 hour days for 2 weeks to read everything I just handed him. Then he may have to set up an appointment to view some evidence (not like he can just stroll to the evidence locker and rip open a bag) which may take a few days or depending on the exact evidence it may take longer (like if something had to be sent to the state lab for DNA testing, sorry you aren’t getting that bloody sock back – here you can have a photograph today but the actual sock is going to be gone for longer)
You may tell your attorney that “Chugs” was the actual murderer. Now he is going to have to use resources to track down chugs/otherwise see if there is anything that points to him being the murderer (a fairly common defense to murder is ‘the other guy’) sure he doesn’t have to prove it was chugs at trial but no jury is going to believe the defendant’s word against the body of evidence the prosecution has. Maybe it takes a few interviews to find out that Chugs is actually John Doe, but since you only knew him as chugs unfortunately ‘a white guy whose 5’10ish with brown hair who happens to live in X city’ doesn’t really give them a ton to work with. The defense has a much better chance of winning if they can at least place John Doe in the vicinity, ideally with some way to prove he was the last person seen with the victim/whatever. These things take time.
Even beyond that let’s say you admit you were guilty of (whatever) you are never going to do an open plea to the charges, that is insane (and really stupid unless the case is so strong you were caught on camera shooting the guy and the police arrived on scene and still in camera arrest you) the defense may have other tricks to get you off ‘on a technicality’ but that takes time to file, and then the prosecution gets time to respond, a hearing is then set up to ultimately decide that your side won. Or the two sides may negotiate. I think I have a pretty good but not perfect case. But I’m feeling much stronger that a lesser charge is the easy win. (This post is long enough without theory about negotiation) maybe this takes a few months and everyone ultimately agrees that you should serve a 2 year jail term for whatever. That time you spent in before counts towards that, it isn’t as if the 9 months you spent pretrial just disappears- it counts towards the 2 year sentence. Depending on the state and such it may be possible that you are sentenced to 2 years with all but 9 months suspended and you are paroled that day.
Sorry this is very long winded and thorough but no tldr.
In the UK you’d go to prison before trial if CPS thought that releasing you would cause harm to others, you’d run away (such as try and leave the country) or if you’d try and intimidate people involved in the case. Most people go home after their initial contact with the police.
The way it seems to happen in the US seems a bit messed up because you’re depriving people of their human rights with minimal justification.
It’s not a real explanation, but the article discusses the problem in California.
[Calmatters article the problem in California.](https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/03/waiting-for-justice/)
In my country you can spend maximum of 2 years in jail awaiting a trail. There is no limit in the US?
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