Hi, I just saw the current protests that surged due to Netanyahus speech in the US. I’m just curious to know why the authorities permit them burning the American flag and vandalism of monuments.
How do freedom of speech laws work in the United States and where’s the line drawn to the action one can take when protesting.
My goal isn’t to discuss politics, so abstain from taking the thread to that direction.
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We have the First Amendment which protects speech. Destroying a flag (as long as it’s ours to destroy) is just an expression of speech. The line is if it interfers with others safety. For example you can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theather because it could cause a stampede and injury to others.
Burning flags is protected. Vandalizing is not.
Cops aren’t going to enforce something when enforcing it could be more dangerous to them, i.e., there are 10 cops among 1000 protestors, the 10 cops aren’t going to engage the protestors out of self preservation. Same like when there would be the smoke out protests where a few thousand people would fill a park and all publicly smoke some MJ. The 4 cops in the park are not going to attempt to arrest anyone as its not safe, they are significantly out numbered.
If you buy a flag, and then burn your own flag, in such a way that it doesn’t present a fire hazard, there’s obviously no serious safety or public order concerns there. Some people have tried to get this banned on the grounds that it makes them angry, but that didn’t work.
Vandalizing *other* people’s property is not free speech and can easily get you arrested and convicted. However, vandals do not generally leave their name and address, so catching them can be tricky.
Flag burning is permitted because if someone wants to express themselves through burning their property it’s their business not the governments assuming that the burning isn’t causing an extra hazard. Destroying monuments isn’t permitted as that would fall under destruction of property and graffiti laws depending on the extent. What happened today with the monuments will easily wash off as it was just “permanent” marker.
A flag is meant to represent the ideals that the country stands for if you feel like certain actions are a betrayal of those ideals symbolically burning the flag is a powerful message that should definitely fall under an Americans right to express their dissatisfaction with the gov’t and seek a redress of their grievances. A persons right to express their dissatisfaction with their government is a founding principle of America and core to the American identity.
If the flag stands for freedom government actions that aid and or support oppression are seen as a betrayal of those founding ideals and by burning the flag they’re using it as a representation of what the government is doing. As they see the government as essentially setting fire to what should be a core founding principle.
The very first amendment to the United States Constitution protects freedom of speech, and that includes conduct or symbolic speech. Burning a flag is symbolic speech, and is thus protected under the First Amendment. The United States Supreme Court affirmed that flag burning is protected speech in a case called *Texas v. Johnson* in 1989. People may run afoul of other laws while burning a flag, such as laws against lighting fires in specific places, but no one can be punished for the act of burning or otherwise destroying a flag itself, assuming the flag belongs to them. (If they stole a flag, they could be charged with theft). Vandalism is a crime everywhere. No one is allowed to vandalize monuments and people are arrested for doing things like that all the time.
Vandalism of monuments is illegal. If it looks like it is being permitted, the mostly likely explanation is that the police are still mobilizing to handle the protest.
Burning the American flag is only illegal if it is not your property. It is considered a part of free speech to be able to burn it. This hasn’t always been the case, but there have been Supreme Court decisions in recent decades that have clarified that flag burning is free speech.
An interesting tidbit here is that according to the US Flag Code, the preferred method of disposal for a US flag that is no longer fit for display is to burn it.
Burning the American flag is a generally recognized form of protest against the us government and protected under free speech laws. It may be frowned upon and strongly discouraged by mainstream society, but it is permissible under the First Amendment.
[US Supreme Court allows US flag burning.](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/when-the-supreme-court-ruled-to-allow-american-flag-burning) as long as the flag is privately owned by the person burning it. If you steal a flag to burn it, you could be charged with theft and destruction of property.
Vandalism of monuments and destruction of property have always been illegal.
Flag burning is mostly destruction of your personal property, which isn’t against the law. If it’s someone else’s flag, or a monument which you don’t own, then if the police can catch the perpetrators, they can do something about it. That said, police wading into a whole bunch of pissed off people to try and make an arrest can turn vandalism into a national tragedy. Also, if a whole bunch of taxpayers destroy a monument maintained with tax money, you might find yourself voted out of office if you try and press charges around such things.
On burning the American Flag, there was a Supreme Court case that specifically decided it: Texas vs Johnson. It was a 5-4 decision, but the ruling was that burning a flag is symbolic speech and political in nature. Those are pretty much the textbook things that the First Amendment was meant to protect. I drive around in a massive truck with the words “Fuck Biden” painted on the tailgate, or in a tiny electric sedan with a bumper stick that says “Lock Trump Up”, because political speech is protected by the US Constitution and subsequent SCOTUS decisions.
Destroying monuments is another thing. I’m not sure what exactly you’re referring to, but I have a feeling it’s going to come down to the dollar amount of the damage that the individual protestors do. That would define a legit protest action versus destruction of public property. If it’s just someone spray painting a statue, it’s more likely to get ruled political speech under Texas v Johnson than if they pounded the statue into gravel. The judge or jury could find the person guilty anyway, but it would get passed up to a court of appeals, and then to SCOTUS, either of which might just call it First Amendment and be done with it.
The first amendment grants citizens the freedom of speech, and the right to assemble. Protestors are allowed to get together on any public property, and protest. They are not allowed to assemble on private property(without permission of the property owner). I’m allowed to set fire to anything I own. If I own a flag, I can burn it. I’m not allowed to take someone else’s flag and burn it.
Vandalism is not legal, because it is damaging to property that the protestors do not own. However, you have to remember that to enforce a law, you need manpower. If 100 people get together and spray paint a monument, it takes sometime for enough cops to show up to arrest people and break up the protest. If 1,000, or 10,000 show up, it’s even harder.
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