why is “gravity as a force” vs. “gravity as curvature in spacetime” not just a matter of interpretation?

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I’ll preface this by saying that I have a very good understanding of Newtonian mechanics, but only an amateur’s understanding of Einstein’s relativity.

I understand that Newton’s law of gravitation is insufficient to accurately describe and predict certain physical phenomena, and that Einstein’s relativity “fixes” this. I don’t understand, however, why we must do away with the model of gravity as a force to build a better model. Couldn’t Newton’s law of gravitation be amended to account for the discrepancies? It looks to me as if it’s a question of which mental model we prefer. Saying that gravity isn’t a force, it is a curvature, or vice-versa, sounds to me like saying that positive charges are actually negative and negative charges are actually positive, i.e., a matter of convention. Whether gravity >is< one or the other seems to me much more a matter of philosophy than physics properly.

So why is this such a central point?

In: Physics

5 Answers

Anonymous 0 Comments

To oversimplify it, Newtonian mechanics break the speed of light. Though the speed of light was measured in the 17th century, it wasn’t determined to be *the fastest possible* speed *anything* could move until Einstein in 1905. Newton assumed gravity as a force was instantaneous no matter how far away two objects were, because… there weren’t yet any contradictory theories to say that was impossible, and there weren’t yet any measurements taken to *prove* it was impossible.

That’s the reason Newtonian mechanics are pretty good at making predictions in broad strokes, but break down in particularly extreme situations such as near a star or black hole, or on the massive scale of galaxies (which wouldn’t be realized what exactly they were until the 1920s). At less extreme scales, the speed of light isn’t particularly *relevant,* so when it starts *becoming* relevant, Newtonian mechanics aren’t sure what to do about the discrepancies it causes.

Anonymous 0 Comments

The central premise of general relativity is that gravity is not a force. The rest is built from the premise, it’s not an interpretation, but rather than starting axiom Einstein worked with. Warped spacetime comes from taking gravity to not be a force, not the other way around.

What do we mean when we say gravity is not a force?

Well, let’s start with centrifugal force. That’s a force, right? Well no, it isn’t. It’s just inertia, there is no force. If you’re on a bus going straight, and it turns, nothing pushed you into the wall when it turns. There is no force. The wall just comes to you and pushes you to make you turn, to accelerate you. The reason we think there is this fictitious centrifugal force is because of this flawed choice of the bus as a reference frame. It’s a non inertial reference frame. The bus is accelerating, in this case, changing directions. How strong is the centrifugal force? Well, the easy answer is it depends on how fast you are turning or spinning. Yes, that. But the revealing answer is it depends on mass. All objects feel the same acceleration, so the force they feel is proportional to their mass. Because it’s not really a force, but just inertia, therefore it happens to scale with mass. Sound familiar? Mass is not a charge of centrifugal force, it doesn’t belong in a force law like electric charge. Inertia manifests this fictitious force, so obviously inertia mass relates to it. Same goes for other fictitious forces, like coriolis force.

So what do we mean when we say gravity is not a force. The EXACT same thing. We mean gravity is a fictitious force. Gravity manifests from choosing a non inertial reference frame. And gravity will depend on mass because it’s just inertia with a mustache disguising it. If you understand why centrifugal force isn’t real, you already understand why gravity isn’t real. You just need to make the leap to non Euclidean geometry with time as a coordinate, which is, admittedly, quite a hard leap to make for the human brain.

You’re on an elevator in space. Or rocket. Whatever, take your pick. It’s a box that can move up or down. The box moves up with you in it. What do you feel? You feel a force pushing you into the floor. You feel weight. If the box goes up at 9.8m/s/s, you feel the same weight as you do on earth. Any object in this box feels the same acceleration. And the force, the weigh, scales with mass. There is no force pushing you down, only the floor pushing you up. But from a reference frame of the box, this downwards force manifests. Now, this sounds exactly like gravity. And Einstein’s insight, it IS the same thing as gravity. It’s the equivalence principle. And if the box stooped accelerating, you’d just float. That’s the same thing as freefall, be it orbit or falling to the ground..

So this is what gravity is not a force means. It means gravity is not real. It’s a fictitious force that arrives simply from the property of inertis and the choice of a non inertial, and accelerating reference frame.

So now, the obvious counter you have to me. The surface of the earth is accelerating. If gravity wasn’t real, and the ground was pushing me up, the ground needs to be accelerating.

Yes, it would. And that’s where the weirdness of taking Einstein’s insight to its logical conclusion comes from. Spacetime is bent. The ground is accelerating. The only force on you is this pushing you up. Not gravity pulling you down. And that’s why every object falls at the same speed. It’s actually really, really weird that we all took Newton on his word when he assumed mass, the thing that responds to gravity, and mass, the thing to do with intertia in Newton’s F=ma were the same thing. That was a wild ass assumption Newton was making. For good reason, it appeared to be true. And Einstein figured out it wasn’t a coincidence. There was only one mass, the inertia one.

Anonymous 0 Comments

Newton’s Law of Gravity is a good approximation of what is observed, and still useful when designing a bridge or aeroplane. It doesn’t give any hint as to the reason WHY there is an attractive force between objects. Gravity as curvature of spacetime provides an explanation of the reason for what we experience.

Anonymous 0 Comments

Gravity is a fictitious force like centrifugal force. If you are spinning around on a merry go round and then the merry go round stops you feel a “force” pushing outward from the center of rotation. This is a centrifugal, an away from the center, force. Except you aren’t actually experiencing a force, you’re experiencing Newton’s first law. Going in a circle like on a merry go round requires a constant centripetal, going toward the center, force. If you swing a ball around your head you have to keep putting in work to keep it spinning. But once you stop putting in that work that force goes away and it will have some velocity tangent (next to) the circle in whatever direction it happens to be moving at that exact instant. And an object in motion stays in motion, so the ball will fly out of your hand in that direction with whatever speed it was spinning around with. That is the centrifugal force, it’s just inertia. Gravity is the exact same way. It seems like a force, but it’s actually just inertia in curved spacetime. It just seems like a force from certain points of view. When that ball flys out of your hand it looks like some new force was acting on it to make it do that, but it wasn’t. When you are pulled to the ground by gravity it seems like there is some force causing that motion, but there isn’t.

We can’t modify Newton to be more in line with our observations because it makes a fundamentally incorrect assumption, that gravity is a force. If you try you will inevitably lead to contradicting yourself.

Anonymous 0 Comments

All these discrepancies will be moot once we measure the graviton. That way we could place it within the pantheon of elementary particles alongside the magneton and photon, and thereby understand its effects at all scales.

Gravity already exhibits the characteristics of a particle: it travels in waves at light speed; it diffuses exponentially; and it interacts with matter.

My understanding is that “spacetime” is merely a measurement convention, but doesn’t actually describe gravity’s quantum effects if we were to define it as a force.