eli5: what’s the difference between songs in 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8? why is there maths in music?
In: 1
okay well , i’m a drummer , so i am going to explain it like i got taught. 4/4 is the most „basic“ rhythm. If you count it , you count 1-2-3-4. 3/4 says that the length is only 3 of 4 beats ( so the rythm itself is shorter , being only 3/4 beats and you count 1-2-3 and leave the 4 away. Like i said , this now leads to the rhythm being shorter which makes the rythm asynchronous in comparison to a 4/4 rythm.
The 8 in 6/8 says that they are 8 beats ( in the same span as the 4 beats from the 4/4 ) which mean the beat is the same length BUT double the speed. the 6 basically says the same thing as the 3 in the 3/4 – that it’s not 8/8 beats but 6/8 , which essentially is the 3/4 double the speed.
So those numbers are time signatures not fractions. The first number is beats per bar. It’s common for songs to have 4 beats per bar. In other words, if you was counting/tapping along with a song you’d be going 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4…… A song with a 3 for the first number is a waltz and you’d be counting 1,2,3,1,2,3,…..
The second number as far as I can remember is the type of note that beat is. A 4 is a crotchet, an 8 is a quaver (I think) which lasts half as long as a crotchet. For most beginners though it’s the first number that is important.
That’s the time signature. Basically, music is divided into what we call compasses. If you listen to an average pop song, you can count 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, and so on to the beat of the song. Each of those groupings of 1-2-3-4 is a compass.
The time signature basically tells us how those compasses will work for each song. To summarize, 4/4 means 4 beats per compass, like the standard pop song, so you’d count it as “1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4”. In 3/4, each compass only has 3 beats, so it would be “1-2-3, 1-2-3”. In 6/8, there are 6 beats per compass. A 7/8 compass would have 7 beats per compass, etc.
The first number is how many beats per compass, the second number is a bit harder to explain in eli5 terms if you don’t know music theory but basically it tells us how long those beats are in the sheet music. Basically, those symbols 🎶🎵and others, they have different durations. The second number in the time signature tells us which of those symbols will be worth 1 beat in the compass. A bigger number is a “faster” (shorter duration) note. So think of “6/8” as 6 shorter notes per compass, while a “3/4” is 3 medium notes per compass, and “4/4” is 4 medium notes per compass.
That’s the general idea, hopefully I made sense lol
Edit: not Compass, they’re called Bars or Measures in English, had a brain fart while typing
Also , the speed of how you count 1-2-3-4 is ruled by the BPM ( beats per minute ) so the higher the BPM , the faster you count 1-2-3-4
Music is built around beats, and those beats are arranged into patterns where some beats feel “stronger” than others. The strong beats are often played louder, correspond with chord changes, and so on. Time signatures like 4/4 and 3/4 are shorthand for certain beat patterns.
2/4 is the simplest pattern, just alternating strong and weak beats
4/4 is the most common in modern music, it goes strong-weak-medium-weak
3/4 is strong-weak-weak
6/8 is a little more complicated, because it doesn’t actually have six beats, it has two. The pattern is strong-weak, like 2/4, but the beats are subdivided into three rather than two. This is called compound meter. So if you wanted to subdivide 2/4 you would go “1-and-2-and” but 6/8 goes “1-and-a-2-and-a”. That adds up to 6 eighth notes, but there are only two beats.
12/8 is 4/4’s equivalent compound meter. 1-and-a-2-and-a-3-and-a-4-and-a.
These are the most common time signatures but they’re not the only ones. Sometimes 2/4 will be written as 2/2 – these are completely equivalent and you can ignore the bottom number as long as it’s not hinting at compound meter. Odd time signatures like 7/8 are a bit less clear. They tell you there’s a strong beat every 7, sure, but where are the “medium” beats? Does it go 3-2-2, 2-3-2, 2-2-3? This can vary between songs.
Those are fractions of a whole note. 4/4 = 4 beats, 3/4 = 3beats, and 6/8 = 2beats (with 3 eights each).
Maths are very convenient to describe the rythmic part of our music.
[This song is in 4/4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y).
Listen to it. Count the beats in your head to the music.
1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4. You have to count pretty slow.
[This song is in 3/4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdYWuo9OFAw&t=12).
Listen to it. Count the beats in your head to the music.
1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3. Again, you have to count pretty slow.
[This song is in 6/8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-43lLKaqBQ).
It looks like twice 3/4, when you write it out, right?
Listen to it. Count the beats in your head to the music.
1-2-3-4-5-6, 1-2-3-4-5-6.
Note that you’ll have to count pretty fast!
Twice as fast as the 3/4 tempo!
It’s the time signature or “meter” – it tells you how many beats to a measure, and which note counts as one beat. It often affects the flow or emphasis of the song in question.
The top number is how many beats in a measure.
The bottom number is which kind of note gets 1 beat. It’s typically a multiple of 2 unless somebody’s actively *trying* to be weird about it.
* /4 means a quarter note (1/4=a quarter) gets 1 beat.
* /2 means a half note gets 1 beat
* /8 means an eighth note is 1 beat
* etc
Examples:
* 4/4 is also known as “common time” and sometimes just has a big C in place of the time signatures. There are 4 beats and a quarter note (the regular black one with a straight stem) is 1 beat. 1 whole note would be 1 whole measure. Arguably about the simplest time signature for beginners. It’s counted like “1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4”
* 3/4 is common for waltzes. There’s usually a subtle emphasis on the first beat. “**one**-two-three, **one**-two-three”
* 2/2 is also known as cut time. It *looks* just like 4/4 (4 quarter notes in each measure), but it’s played at twice the speed (because one beat is half a measure instead of a quarter). It’s common for marches.
* 6/8 ends up playing a lot like 3/4 (and it looks about the same) and has a lilting feel similar to a waltz, but the emphasis is different, like if a waltz only had an emphasis every other measure. House of the Rising Sun and Hallelujah are in 6/8. It counts more like **one**-and-a-two-and-a, **one**-and-a-two-and-a.
* Signatures like 5/4 or 7/8 are where it starts getting weird. They’re used a lot in jazz, but also for some more traditional songs that don’t follow a more “standard” meter. Think Dave Brubek’s “Take Five” or the Mission Impossible theme.
ETA: There’s maths in it because music is inherently mathematical. Melody is notes in rhythm. In order to maintain a rhythm, you have to have precision. In order to consistently *notate* a rhythm (so that somebody who hasn’t heard it can accurately reproduce it), you need an internally consistent language of notation, just like with, e.g., algebra.
They are not fractions, they are time signatures. They work a little bit like fractions, and look a little bit like fractions, but not completely. Note that when written correctly, there is no line between the two numbers, because they are not exactly fractions.
Why is there math in music? Because in typical Western music, we tend to like things to be in regular patterns. It sounds pleasing to us.
(Btw, I don’t mean Western as in Country & Western. I mean Europe and so on; that is, not traditional African or Indian music).
A piece of music is divided into measures, each lasting the same length, around a second or so. Usually the first sound in the measure is played with more emphasis.
Within the measure, there are beats, and some of them are played with a little more emphasis than others. Not as much as the extra emphasis of the first beat in a measure, but a little more.
The time signatures describe the number of beats in a measure, and how they are grouped for emphasis. The different common time signatures are best described using an example where the music is a series of eighth notes (also called a quavers).
For example, 4/4 time (written as 4 over another 4 with no line between them, impossible on reddit). This would have 8 quavers per measure. Emphasis is on the first quaver, and also to a lesser extent on the third, fifth, and seventh quavers.
In 3/4 time there are 6 quavers per measure. Emphasis is on the first quaver, and also to a lesser extend on the third, and fifth quavers.
In 6/8 time there are also 6 quavers per measure. Emphasis is on the first quaver, and also to a lesser extend on the fourth quaver (that’s how it is different to 3/4).
So you can see how a time signature is a little bit like a fraction. The fraction sort of tells you how many quarter notes or eighth notes are in each measure. But it tells you more than that as well.
And if you really want to see how math is involved in music take a look at how harmonica work. There’s a lot of math there (although it’s not necessary to know it to compose, play, or enjoy music).
Honestly, there doesn’t have to be anything different between songs in 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8. Those are time signatures those, not math. That being said, the choice of time signature does usually convey some information about how it is intended to be performed. There is usually an additional stress on the first beat of bar, which is also called the down beat: **1**-2-3-4-**1**-2-3-4-etc. The choice to use a smaller beat in the time signature usually indicates that the rhythm is faster than in a comparable piece with a long beat in the time signature as well.
Latest Answers