aren’t by now easy to fake? (e.g hand-writing robots)
Plus we often do digital signatures, which are basically a jpg on top of a PDF document, no?
In: 132
A lot of the replies here are saying that a notary is used, but I’ve been in business for 20 years, and I have only encountered agreements requiring notarization a handful of times. I’ve executed deals for tens of millions of dollars that didn’t require a notary. We’ve executed literally thousands of contracts without a notary. While I’m not a lawyer, I do work hand-in-hand with our chief legal counsel and outside counsel on all of our agreements.
The answer to your question is multi-faceted. We never relied *solely* on signatures to validate contracts. Contracts are not signed in a vacuum. You don’t show up one day, having never met everyone involved in the agreement, sign, then leave. There is a lot of contact leading up to the signature of the agreement. Much of this communication talks about the intent to sign.
When you do ultimately sign, you often do so while together in one place. In this case, there are people who witnessed you sign the document. If you aren’t together, you might do a digital signature. These tools embed information about the digital “trail” you leave behind. The invitation to sign is sent to your email. You click the link from that email. Your browser details, IP address, geo-location, etc are all collected when you sign digitally.
So with all of the above taken into consideration, let’s say you sign an agreement, but later claim you didn’t. The other parties in the agreement can hold you to it through litigation (which is expensive). During that litigation, all the communications leading up to the signature event can be entered into evidence. Other people who saw you sign will testify under oath that they witnessed you sign the document. If you signed digitally, the digital “trail” you left behind will be used as a kind of fingerprint to associate that signature event with you.
All of this information comes together to make the case that you did, in fact, sign the document. You’ll be forced to choose between spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees to fight, or simply admit that you signed and comply with the terms.
Looking at it from the other direction, what if someone forged your signature? In that case, there would be a complete absence of communication leading up to the signature event that could tie you to it. That’s going to be a real problem for the party claiming you signed the document. They’re not likely to get very far in court.
Also, most agreements aren’t signed between strangers. They’re formed between people or businesses that know each other. Signing a document, then reneging later will destroy your credibility. With the advent of the internet, reputation can follow you anywhere you go.
Lastly, consider the types of agreements that *do* require a notary. A notary is most frequently required when the parties forming the agreement don’t have a lot of history together. For example, if you get a mortgage, you’re a stranger to the bank. This is the type of agreement that most consumers are familiar with, but they’re not the most common type of agreement. Businesses execute massive volumes of agreements without notarization.
A lot of the replies here are saying that a notary is used, but I’ve been in business for 20 years, and I have only encountered agreements requiring notarization a handful of times. I’ve executed deals for tens of millions of dollars that didn’t require a notary. We’ve executed literally thousands of contracts without a notary. While I’m not a lawyer, I do work hand-in-hand with our chief legal counsel and outside counsel on all of our agreements.
The answer to your question is multi-faceted. We never relied *solely* on signatures to validate contracts. Contracts are not signed in a vacuum. You don’t show up one day, having never met everyone involved in the agreement, sign, then leave. There is a lot of contact leading up to the signature of the agreement. Much of this communication talks about the intent to sign.
When you do ultimately sign, you often do so while together in one place. In this case, there are people who witnessed you sign the document. If you aren’t together, you might do a digital signature. These tools embed information about the digital “trail” you leave behind. The invitation to sign is sent to your email. You click the link from that email. Your browser details, IP address, geo-location, etc are all collected when you sign digitally.
So with all of the above taken into consideration, let’s say you sign an agreement, but later claim you didn’t. The other parties in the agreement can hold you to it through litigation (which is expensive). During that litigation, all the communications leading up to the signature event can be entered into evidence. Other people who saw you sign will testify under oath that they witnessed you sign the document. If you signed digitally, the digital “trail” you left behind will be used as a kind of fingerprint to associate that signature event with you.
All of this information comes together to make the case that you did, in fact, sign the document. You’ll be forced to choose between spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees to fight, or simply admit that you signed and comply with the terms.
Looking at it from the other direction, what if someone forged your signature? In that case, there would be a complete absence of communication leading up to the signature event that could tie you to it. That’s going to be a real problem for the party claiming you signed the document. They’re not likely to get very far in court.
Also, most agreements aren’t signed between strangers. They’re formed between people or businesses that know each other. Signing a document, then reneging later will destroy your credibility. With the advent of the internet, reputation can follow you anywhere you go.
Lastly, consider the types of agreements that *do* require a notary. A notary is most frequently required when the parties forming the agreement don’t have a lot of history together. For example, if you get a mortgage, you’re a stranger to the bank. This is the type of agreement that most consumers are familiar with, but they’re not the most common type of agreement. Businesses execute massive volumes of agreements without notarization.
(1) Digital signatures are NOT just a JPG on top of a PDF document. There are electronic protections to ensure that the document hasn’t been changed since it was signed.
(2) Forgery has always been a problem. That’s one reason why the US has notary publics — it’s their job, more/less, to make sure that the person signing really is the person they claim to be. And, with wills, there are even more requirements — you have to have people (beyond the notary) witness the signing.
(3) Disputes over signatures are very rarely over whether a signature actually belongs to a person. Why? Mainly because they’re usually easy to resolve based on circumstances. (“You claim this signature on this purchase agreement for a 2023 Corvette is forged, yet you drove here in that Corvette, and we have pictures of you at our dealership.”)
(1) Digital signatures are NOT just a JPG on top of a PDF document. There are electronic protections to ensure that the document hasn’t been changed since it was signed.
(2) Forgery has always been a problem. That’s one reason why the US has notary publics — it’s their job, more/less, to make sure that the person signing really is the person they claim to be. And, with wills, there are even more requirements — you have to have people (beyond the notary) witness the signing.
(3) Disputes over signatures are very rarely over whether a signature actually belongs to a person. Why? Mainly because they’re usually easy to resolve based on circumstances. (“You claim this signature on this purchase agreement for a 2023 Corvette is forged, yet you drove here in that Corvette, and we have pictures of you at our dealership.”)
Your question is based on a misconception. Yes, digital signatures are a thing and can be used for contracts.
Your question is based on a misconception. Yes, digital signatures are a thing and can be used for contracts.
I sign contracts on a very regular basis, it has been well over 10 years since I used a wet signature. Docusign or similar systems are the most common way I sign documents. Heck, even a lease I co-signed for my daughter was a digital signature.
The misconception about signatures is that it is used to compare to a different signature to prove it is valid. This was used at times with banks to check signatures on checks, but it is very error prone and that was when check forging was at its peak before we mostly shifted to other ways of transferring funds.
If a signature is challenged it is a civil case. In short you have to state under oath that you are not the person that signed the contract, and then the other side needs to present additional evidence that indeed you are the one that signed the contract.
A legal signature can be an X and one of the reasons the witnesses end up being as important as the signature itself.
But also a lot of people will not want to commit perjury.
I sign contracts on a very regular basis, it has been well over 10 years since I used a wet signature. Docusign or similar systems are the most common way I sign documents. Heck, even a lease I co-signed for my daughter was a digital signature.
The misconception about signatures is that it is used to compare to a different signature to prove it is valid. This was used at times with banks to check signatures on checks, but it is very error prone and that was when check forging was at its peak before we mostly shifted to other ways of transferring funds.
If a signature is challenged it is a civil case. In short you have to state under oath that you are not the person that signed the contract, and then the other side needs to present additional evidence that indeed you are the one that signed the contract.
A legal signature can be an X and one of the reasons the witnesses end up being as important as the signature itself.
But also a lot of people will not want to commit perjury.
In addition to the other points, whilst working on an IT project in local government, we came across legislation/ regulations that specified a signature was required.
Could a digital signature be used? Their legal team said no.
In addition to the other points, whilst working on an IT project in local government, we came across legislation/ regulations that specified a signature was required.
Could a digital signature be used? Their legal team said no.
Latest Answers