aren’t by now easy to fake? (e.g hand-writing robots)
Plus we often do digital signatures, which are basically a jpg on top of a PDF document, no?
In: 132
We’re moving away from them, but it will take time.
My company signs new work contracts digitally, it’s a PDF but it’s doesn’t have any HR signature; if you open the document, it says something like “Digitally signed and all signatures are valid”.
But I think they use a third party service for signing, they pay something for every signed document, and they pay for archiving too. It’s useful for IT remote workers, maybe not so much for hiring on-site manual laborers.
The signature isn’t meant as a from of positive identification in most cases. In theory any contract with meaning should signed in person with both parties of the contract present. You could sign the contract with a big red x if you wanted. In fact for much of history the illiterate did sign a contract with an “x”. It was called making your mark. All that mark is saying is that “this person present right now understands the contract and enters into it willingly”
if the identity of each party is important the signing will be done in the presence of a certified notary that will positively identify the signatories, witness the signing, and stamp the original document with their name, date, and time. Secure digital signatures will also imprint part of a encrypted key into the signature that will uniquely identify the computer at which it was signed. Again if the identity of the signatories is important there are online Business that will do the function of the notary and confirm the identity of each party and certify that the signature supplies is from x person.
Digitally signing a document is (or should be) way more than “just a jpeg”. What is happening in the background is that you encrypt that file with a key. This key is one you never give to anyone else. If someone wants to decrypt and see the document, he has to use a different key to decrypt it. (This is asymmetric encryption, check wikipedia if you’re interested). You will give anyone who wants it the key need to decrypt it. If they are able to decrypt it, then it means that it was encrypted with your secret (private) key. Since you are the only one who has that private key, that means the document really comes from you.
The actual signature on a document is not used to validate that you *signed* the contract, what it is is used to validate that you knowingly entered into the deal.
You can try to challenge the validity of the signature on the document to get out of a contract, but frankly if that’s your defense, you already lost.
Let’s say A claims they didn’t get into an agreement with B. This is how questioning will look in court (or deposition).
Lawyer for B – A, you claim that you did not sign this contract, is this correct?
A – That is correct
Lawyer for B – Ok, can you explain why then did you take a meeting at 330pm on April 15th, 2023 at the office of B?
A – Um, it was unreleted.
Lawyer for B – Can you read the title of the meeting invite?
A – “Meeting to sign contract”.
Lawyer for B – Can you also explain why your assistant testified that on that day, you left work early. etc etc.
This kind of questioning will absolutely eviscerate you in trial and Judges will be furious about the amount of time wasted to prove something that didn’t need to be proven. Claiming you didn’t sign something is a terrible terrible defense.
Also, despite what people believe, contracts do not have to be signed. Any legal offer (with consideration) and acceptance can certainly be an enforceable contract.
Let’s say you and I agree over the phone that I will sell you my car at fair market value. That’s a contract. It can be enforceable. You don’t need a signed piece of paper.
Digitally signing a document is (or should be) way more than “just a jpeg”. What is happening in the background is that you encrypt that file with a key. This key is one you never give to anyone else. If someone wants to decrypt and see the document, he has to use a different key to decrypt it. (This is asymmetric encryption, check wikipedia if you’re interested). You will give anyone who wants it the key need to decrypt it. If they are able to decrypt it, then it means that it was encrypted with your secret (private) key. Since you are the only one who has that private key, that means the document really comes from you.
It’s not confidential, the whole point is that you can say “I didn’t know about this document” and have at least some justification
The actual signature on a document is not used to validate that you *signed* the contract, what it is is used to validate that you knowingly entered into the deal.
You can try to challenge the validity of the signature on the document to get out of a contract, but frankly if that’s your defense, you already lost.
Let’s say A claims they didn’t get into an agreement with B. This is how questioning will look in court (or deposition).
Lawyer for B – A, you claim that you did not sign this contract, is this correct?
A – That is correct
Lawyer for B – Ok, can you explain why then did you take a meeting at 330pm on April 15th, 2023 at the office of B?
A – Um, it was unreleted.
Lawyer for B – Can you read the title of the meeting invite?
A – “Meeting to sign contract”.
Lawyer for B – Can you also explain why your assistant testified that on that day, you left work early. etc etc.
This kind of questioning will absolutely eviscerate you in trial and Judges will be furious about the amount of time wasted to prove something that didn’t need to be proven. Claiming you didn’t sign something is a terrible terrible defense.
Also, despite what people believe, contracts do not have to be signed. Any legal offer (with consideration) and acceptance can certainly be an enforceable contract.
Let’s say you and I agree over the phone that I will sell you my car at fair market value. That’s a contract. It can be enforceable. You don’t need a signed piece of paper.
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Where I’m from, digital signatures are not simply jpegs.
To sign digitally, you open a special software, insert your ID in ID card reader and then sign by entering two pin codes.
It’s not confidential, the whole point is that you can say “I didn’t know about this document” and have at least some justification
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