here is a post from the adhd $ub containing a couple thousand annecdotes showing that it either makes us tired, or has no effect for most people with adhd:
(link in comments else aut0m0d flags this as being about r3dd!t drama)
one of the top comments was a guy saying he drank it to sleep at night,
and i personally wanted to test this on myself, i dont consume much caffeine regularly, i usualy have one cup of coke containing 30mg per day, but today i drank two cups of coffee (the first two of my life it, was fucking disqusting) and 3 energy drinks. i got 8.5 hours of sleep last night, and its 6pm, i feel incredibly tired, and have done all day, the most awake i felt today was in the morning just before my first cup. my heart rate is 58bpm as writing this, which is the same as usual, maybe a tiny bit more. despite me consuming about 350mg, and about half of that was chugged about 45 minutes ago, this is the most tired i’ve felt today.
i’m interested in the science behind why this happens to adhd people?
In: Biology
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/s0mg9n/how_does_caffeine_affect_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/s0mg9n/how_does_caffeine_affect_you/)
The problem is that we don’t actually know what causes ADHD. The underlying neurochemical processes just aren’t understood well enough to give a solid answer. One theory I’ve heard lately is that, whether as a cause or side effect, ADHD might be caused by a reduced production or reception of dopamine and other brain chemicals. Stimulants boost the body’s ability to produce and receive those chemicals. This would mean that an ADHD person who takes a stimulant, like caffeine, is going from a reduced dopamine state to a normal one, rather than from a normal one to an excited one like a non-ADHD person would be. And it could be that the normal state of someone with ADHD is tired as hell from having to spend their whole lives forcing themselves to focus on things that don’t interest (read: dopamine-triggering) them.
Don’t cite me in a paper about this, though. It just seems to make sense to me.
Also, try drinking strong black tea or more Coke inst ad of coffee. A cup of coffee has 95 mg of caffeine in it. Two cups of black tea will get you the same amount, as will 3 cans of Coke (try Coke Zero or Diet Coke, though, you probably don’t want the extra calories).
There is a concept in neurology called “optimal arousal”. (It is not about sex.) The idea is that there is a certain amount of stimulus: sensory input *and* tasks, where a person is most comfortable. If your environment has too little stimulation, you’re bored. If your environment has too much stimulation, you’re overwhelmed. Think about how many drivers turn down the radio while navigating unfamiliar areas: their task is more stimulating than usual, so they have to reduce sensory input to maintain optimal arousal and not get overwhelmed.
People with ADHD generally have VERY HIGH thresholds for optimal arousal. They really do focus on their homework better with music, and they really do like to play their music that loud. They jump chaotically from topic to topic and task to task because they’re constantly chasing every bit of stimulation they can get, like tigers pacing at the zoo. They need more pumpkins full of hamburger in their enclosure, STAT!
Stimulants, well, *stimulate* the brain and central nervous system. Caffeine, for some ADHD people at some doses, stimulates the brain enough that they can sit still, focus on boring tasks, or even fall asleep in a timely manner instead of literally or figuratively pacing. Stronger stimulants like amphetamines (Adderall) and methylphenidates (Ritalin), and SNRIs (Strattera) can have the same effect, but they also have to be prescribed because they’re more likely to make someone with a normal threshold for optimal arousal sick from too much stimulation.
Source: am a pharmacy tech, also have ADHD.
This isn’t entirely true. I have ADHD and consume LARGE amounts of caffeine over the course of a day. I can definitely hit a threshold where I go over and crash, but I have inattentive ADHD, so I need stimulants to get me to focus on almost anything.
OP that is far too much caffeine for anybody.
But yeah caffeine got me snoozing. Only way it pumps me up is if I engage in some exercise before it starts to kick in. Like before a hockey game.
I have learned that the leading theory is that caffeine pushes through your dopamine (which controls wakefulness and executive function) faster, so if you have normal amounts being produced, you would get a burst of awakeness and then a lull to replenish. But if you’re already at a dopamine deficit, it just crashes you.
ADHD is basically a dopamine regulation issue and is at a deficit by default.
fwiw this could be a tough ELI5 cuz its very anectdotal regarding wether you’d get these side effects, i work in mental health and the majority of my clients have ADD/ADHD as one of multiple neurodiversities – i have one client with ADD who has one or two BIG energy drinks in the AM before/during our sessions at 10am (CONTEXT: i teach rap to NDIS clients one on one and do my own rap for a company that does mental health support and also has a label side for releasing music fwiw – but i get paid for making my own music on company time etc)
Point is – some days he says’s he can’t feel it, some days he feels like he has too much energy – i think there’s one HUGE variable and thats the fact that everybodys body chemistry is diff and can change day to day based on diet and other variables plus they are on other medications many times and that can cause it to interact differently
FWIW No-Doz Pills work WAY slower than a 200mg caffeine drink would which can avoid jitters a bit as its less up and down than caffeine when in liquid form like coffee/energy drinks etc – one thing though, no doze PLUS is WEAKER, its 100mg caffeine PLUS a vitamin or two, reg no doz is just 200mg caffeine, i find that a good alt but could work for you as my client tries them sometimes and finds they work but more for long term than a quick pick me up…
hope that helps!
Remember in school when the teacher stepped out and every child in the classroom began to talk all at once? You couldn’t hear every kid, but just because you couldn’t hear them didn’t mean they weren’t talking, it just meant you couldn’t hear them over everything else. But, as it always happened, all the kids talking made a lot of noise which brought the teacher back, who then took control and settled the class down. And, there was always that last kid who was the last to stop talking, who, even if he was on the other side of the room, you (and everyone else) could hear because now the room was quiet.
ADHD is like a classroom where the teacher has stepped out. Very simply speaking, ADHD is where the prefrontal cortex of the brain does not work the way it is supposed to work . Your prefrontal cortex is the control center. It monitors and controls all the other, conscious, functions of the brain. It keeps the brain in line and functioning properly. When it stops doing it’s job, all the other aspects of the brain just do their thing and the whole thing gets real crowded and noisy real fast. This makes it hard to tell what is going on. *Didn’t I have an appointment at 1:00 or was it 2:00,* ***LOOK!!!*** *That’s shiny must have shiny!”*
Stimulants, very simply speaking, wake the prefrontal cortex up, so it can do its job. Once it has settled the brain down, it is much easier to take stock and assess the situation. Usually, this includes a good dose of being tired due to all the unrestrained mental activity. So, stimulants don’t *make* a person tired, they allow a person with ADHD to realize they are tired and have been for sometime.
People with ADHD respond to stimulants in the same way as neurotypical brains although it should be noted that people have differing responses to caffeine with or without ADHD. As a general rule, people with ADHD experience the same effects from stimulants as people without ADHD.
People with ADHD have a hypoactive prefrontal cortex. This structure is associated with executive function, or the ability to exert control over the brain’s activity. Focus, if you will. ADHD is sometimes referred to as “executive function disorder.”
Stimulants, including caffeine, will increase activity across the entire brain. In people with ADHD, stimulant caused increased activity in the hypoactive prefrontal cortex allows it to function closer to that of a neurotypical brain. Because stimulants allow for executive function closer to a neurotypical brain, stimulants have the effect of mitigating ADHD symptoms!
Because there is a lot of overlap between ADHD symptoms, which are mitigated with stimulant use, and stimulant effects, which are caused by stimulant use, people with ADHD often incorrectly believe that stimulants don’t affect their brains in the same way. What’s really happening is that the ADHD symptoms are mitigated to a degree that the stimulant effects are masked or difficult to observe.
People with ADHD learn to self medicate with caffeine and are more likely to consume a lot of caffeine and consequently have high tolerance. This is why you hear a lot of a stories of people with ADHD having coffee and then sleeping.
The posts that suggest ADHD is caused by a dopamine deficit are referencing a theory that has been rejected for quite a while now. ADHD is tightly related to dopamine, so much that dopaminergic drugs treat ADHD symptoms, but the idea that ADHD is caused by a deficit in baseline dopamine has been disproven.
Personally I have adhd and don’t experience this but here’s why this is most likely to case:
People with ADHD’s brain don’t produce enough hormones to stimulate them. As a result, people with ADHD have trouble concentrating on mundane tasks because their brain is searching for external sources of stimulation. This can manifest itself with inability to concentrate, hyperactivity, impulsive behavior and insomnia.
To treat this medicinally, you generally take adderall or Ritalin, both of which are stimulants. Most people get a rush of energy when they take amphetamines but paradoxically, these meds can help people with adhd concentrate because it satiates the brain’s need to seek stimulation. Caffeine is also a stimulant so it’s not surprising that it may have a similar effect on some people with adhd.
It is also possible that some people making this claim are actually severely addicted to caffeine because they consume it all day, they don’t get quality sleep at night as a result so they’re always tired, but if they don’t get caffeine they have withdrawals, which agitate them, which is why drinking caffeine actually can help relax them or make them “sleepy.”
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